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Saturday, November 20, 2004

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Awesome post! I agree completely.

So tell me, what is a parent to do when their kid is being forced to read a book the parent doesn't think is appropriate?

Mr & Mrs Kruger could do no better then go and read Orwell's 1984 then move on to his essay's
Or Michael Burleigh's The Third Reich: A New History.
Or any book about german history c.1930-c.1945. It might give them something to think about. But then for them may be a little free thought will be a danger.
One must say that there is a good arguement for making the film Footloose a must see film for every 13-14 year old hopefully it will protect them from pedents like the Kruger's.

Wow. I love how you speak of everything which you know nothing about. I am the 14 year old daughter of Kurt and Karen. I find it to be hilarious how you can say I should hate my parents for what they have done. You are saying that I should hate my parents for standing up for something that they know is wrong. Why should I be subject to learning about this crap in school when I am constantly surrounded by it everywhere else. School is a place to learn things that will eventually help you become more in life. So tell me, how is learning how to masturbate going to make me become a more successful person?

How can you sanely say that almost every 14-18 year old masturbates, has sex, is gay and other things mentioned above? Where are your facts coming from? Every comment you made is purely based on your opinion. If you would like to hand your child a book filled with vulgar imagery and other vile things, by all means! Go for it! But why should this be taught in school?

Just for the record, the book was never asked to be removed from the school. If the school wanted to keep it in the library, that was up to them. We simply wanted the book to be out of the classroom. But I'm sure that was just a fact you "happened" to have left out. Also, if the kids HAD brought permission slips home, which none of them ever did, the description of the books were so vague parents wouldn't have known what terrible things were in the book. The teacher that handed them out suggested that the students could have their parents sign them if the parents were "over protective". And the permission slips said nothing about all the things in the book. The slips said "diverse". Since when does diverse mean purverse?? Why stop at Perks? Why not just have Playboy and other porn at school? Its about time that people started standing up for what they believe in.

Lastly, before you go suggesting that my parents have a lack of confidence in raising me and my brothers, you should know all the facts. When people say something I find offensive, I ask them not to say that around me. I don't swear at school. Of course, everyone else does, but don't you think its a little more admirable to have self control than to give in to the temptations and pressures of the world? I wouldn't even begin to suggest that my parents have done a bad job raising me. If they did, why would I be writing this. Why would I be standing up for something that I believe is wrong. I am only 14 and I already know the difference between right and wrong. How long will it take you to learn that difference? I don't know why you've decided to be so critical of what my parents are doing. But before you decide to attack my parents again, I suggest that you base what you know on the facts, not the fiction that you've thought up.

Sincerely,

Kalli

I am sorry that you and your parents feel that an offensive book was forced on you, Kalli. It sounds like your family is an example of why there are parental consent forms allowing you to read something else.

I would suggest, however, that no matter how offended you are by this book, you do not have the right to shield OTHER children from it. That is between those children and their own parents, and it is as unfair for your family to try to take a book away from them as it is for them to force a book on you.

Personally, I think it's a shame that so many parents want classroom literature to be sanitized of the tough issues that the students are very likely to face. Forewarned is forearmed. If I were a 14YO girl facing the threat of date rape, or who had friends who were gay, I would be better prepared to protect myself from the first or address the second with an open mind if I had been exposed to the existence of such things ahead of time.

Tod - thank you for your views and your blog.

Kalli,

I don't think Tod wrote or meant that most of all teenagers are gay, commit suicide, masturbate or have oral sex. Just that some do. (Although from my meory of being in high school, the latter two certainly seemed to be common).

The issue here is free speech. If those topics offend you, don't read them. Ask for a personal exception. Tell a teacher you'd rather not read those books. Take a different class. Read the cliff's notes. Buy an edited edition.

But it's not OK to impose those opinions or stringencies on other people. Limiting the freedom of information has led to terrible actions around the world--and continues to do so.

Just for the record: These books are not instructional manuals. They will not teach you to masturbate, have oral sex, "become" gay or kill yourself. Those topics are part of the tapestry of the work, as they are part of the tapestry of life.

Read on.

I'm a senior who read this book. My teacher previously before reading had our parents sign a permission form before reading. If you don't want your child reading this book, like as said above asked to read another book. Don't ban a book and not let other students who are able to read it, not get the chance.
If your child is in at least middle school, there's a 90 percent chance that they know what's going on in this book. Teenagers in this generation aren't ignorant; we know what's going on. It just shows if you're banning this book that your over protective and later on in life, your child will rebel. No matter if it’s in a book or on television, your child will see what’s being talked about in this book. It doesn't say in the book to go and do the things Charlie is doing, its just him expressing his first year of high school, not every person is the same, we have our own morals and ideas.

Stephanie

Nicole (3 comments above) mentioned that if he were a 14YO girl, he would like to be informed on how to protect himself from date-rape. Where exactly did this book state how to prevent it, or how to take action. To my recolection, Charlie stood by, watched, and did absolutly nothing. Perhaps I am wrong because I have not read the book from cover to cover. I do, however, have a comment for Nicole. My school consits of 2000 freshman and sophmores at the south campus alone. I know about 70% of those people, and not one of them has EVER been raped, is gay, or many of the other things graphically depicted in this book. How to prevent all these things or get help has been descused in health class, and or the peer counseling program. So even if this book was telling you how to prevent it, they have already been told how to prevent it or seek help in a previous class. Why is it nessicary to teach something again in what is supposed to be an English class??

Now to Eli. I agree, people should not try to destroy literature or ban books. That has never been the goal. The only thing we wanted was it out of the classroom. If people want to read it, by all means, get it from the library. And if I was in that class I would have asked to read a different book. But this means that I still have to sit through class discusions in which the teacher reads exact quotes. Yes, I could leave the room, but people always bring up how they dont want to make kids feel "ostracized". What about me?! Where is my freedom of speech? The freedom to be in a public place and not be drowned in vulgarities? And you mentioned that from what you remember, kids were basically like how the book described. What high school did you go to? According to my current experience, you're not giving this younger generation enough credit.

Lastly Stephanie. You were a senior when you read this book. Do you realize that there are multiple 15 YO's reading this book? I have been forced to essentially read it and I was only 13. 15 YO's aren't even allowed in an R rated movie, and this book is just as bad, if not worse. I of all people know that kids these days have a very vivid idea of whats going on in the world today. And how did they know? Not from reading books, but from the daily experience of life. So why should they be taught about it in a classroom? What is wrong exactly w/being protective? I resent the fact that you think if a child has protective parents they will rebel. Maybe they will but I'm pretty sure I haven't. That statement you made was completely preposterous. And I'm glad that everyone has different morals and ideas. W/O that freedom what would America be. But there is a right time for everything and highschool is not the right time for this, that is if there IS a right time for this book.

Kalli

Generally speaking, people who don't want to ban books don't say, and I quote here from the news article I quoted above:

"Now I want it banned," said Karen Krueger, who had argued all along that she wasn't asking for the book to be completely removed from the school. "Their parental notification is ineffective."

I'm not going to enter into an arguement with a minor here, so I'll leave it at that.

I'm not trying to be domineering or belligerent, but out of curiosity have you ever knowticed how you never quite get the full story? My mom said that out of pure rage for the continual denial and for havig the policy continually changed. She never wanted it banned.

In case you are wondering why I continue to check your website and comment, its because I believe it is my duty to inform people on our viewpoint and to defend my family. One last question. Since you refuse to argue with a minor, why is it that you would hand porn to one?

dude that was awsome those people are crazy and that book was awsome

Since you refuse to argue with a minor, why is it that you would hand porn to one?

None of the books mentioned in the post are pornographic, so your comparison is hyperbolic and ludicrous. Also, the course was elective - in simple terms, it is not required, so students have the choice to not take the course.

An open letter to Todd, proponent of masturbating and the infection of the young minds of our next generation,

Dear Todd,

Todd is so informal, may I call you Mr. T ? Yes Mr. T should work, not really to make this any more of a formal conversation but more to relate you to a pompous, vulgar, brainless ape who could only utter a few simple idiotic sayings like “I pity the fool” or in your case asinine comments like, “Your kids are going to hate you,” or “I suggest keeping them locked in the closet.” I mean honestly how do you fabricate these unintelligent ideas? Where do you get your skewed information from?

My name is Nick Krueger and I and the oldest son of the Krueger family and am the one who was forced to read this smut. Although it is about two years since this well warranted dispute occurred, when I found this forum I was disgruntled. Your opening statement,
“Seriously. They are going to hate you. Do you want to know why? Because you've done the one thing that children recognize as bullshit: you've made an issue out of your own parenting, or, perhaps, your own lack of confidence in how you raise your children.”
only displays your lack maturity and your inability to formulate an well educated opinion without adding in a bunch of horse manure. I, contrary to your statement, don’t hate my parents. In fact I respect them more for standing up for what they believe in. Instead of conforming to your “real world,” they chose to make a stand to try a change to horrific smut that is being force fed to your next generation. This isn’t an issue of “lack of confidence in their child raising skills,” as you proposed. But a belief that they could make a difference in the world that we live in today.

Secondly Mr. T, how do u know so much about masturbating and being homosexual? Really, the whole world doesn’t masturbate like you might. I know, I know, there are some people in this world like you, who get their kicks out of masturbating to bestiality and midget porn, but the reality of it, is that the whole world isn’t like you. Words do not only inflict harm upon people sheltered by reality. Words cause people to think. Words cause people to act. Tell me this Mr. T. If you have a daughter would you want her masturbating with a hotdog or getting the idea to finger her vagina, because she read this book? How about eating “hash brownie?” I know, I think that seeing as your daughter isn’t going to be one of those people “sheltered by reality,” that after her reading this book, you wont mind her thinking that when her boyfriend forces his penis into her mouth, that is ok. Right? You have got to be kidding me Mr. T. The fact of the matter is words affect people. They affect the way people think. They affect the way people act. This should not be force fed to the students our schools. This garbage is not “intellectual property.” It is what the devils wants this world to become. And is people like you who are so willing to follow it that are making this world a shit-hole. You are what consists of the succumb of the earth. If not for my parents there would be more people like you. But feel free to believe what you wish Mr. T. Perhaps your idea of a perfect world is sitting in hell, getting all the blowjobs you like, from gay men, while watching an abundant amount of midget porn. But my view of a perfect world, along with my parents is not this. They are trying to change the world, not conform to it because that’s the norm. Why are you asking that good people succumb to the sins of the world? Since when should middle class mediocrity be acceptable?

These are the words of a 14 year old, who just happens to be my sister, commenting on your remarks about the “real world.”

“Of course, everyone else does, but don't you think its a little more admirable to have self control than to give in to the temptations and pressures of the world? I am only 14 and I already know the difference between right and wrong. How long will it take you to learn that difference? I don't know why you've decided to be so critical of what my parents are doing. But before you decide to attack my parents again, I suggest that you base what you know on the facts, not the fiction that you've thought up.”

This girl has more maturity and more morality than you will ever have and she is only 14. This is the type of people we need in our community, not writers who get off by writing perverse books or teachers who force feed them to entire classes.

Finally Mr. T, I suggest that you read one book, not two, just one. Its called The Bible.

And is people like you who are so willing to follow it that are making this world a shit-hole. You are what consists of the succumb of the earth. If not for my parents there would be more people like you. But feel free to believe what you wish Mr. T. Perhaps your idea of a perfect world is sitting in hell, getting all the blowjobs you like, from gay men, while watching an abundant amount of midget porn.

At first I thought this might serious. Then I checked the date (Spring Festival celebrated by Christians) and read that particular passage and knew that it was a joke.

A fine, fine piece of satire it is.

If it isn't, well, it should be. There isn't a serious argument made in it and, as is the case with this kind of stuff, when the individual doesn't have ground to stand on, he (or she) just starts slinging insults.

Happy Easter, all.

"Yes Mr. T should work, not really to make this any more of a formal conversation but more to relate you to a pompous, vulgar, brainless ape who could only utter a few simple idiotic sayings like “I pity the fool”"

So you're saying African Americans are vulgar, brainless apes? Nice to know that you're a racist, too. If certainly fits with the rest of your views (assuming you're really Nick, which I doubt).

By the way, I know my kids are masturbating. I certainly did when I was their age. It's a natural part of sexuality and growing up. there's no harm in it whatsoever. I hope when they are adults they have all the oral sex they want...safely, of course, in a relationship with someone they love. My children are going to grow up and have sex and that doesn't scare me. I hope it's great sex. I want them to be happy.

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  • July 11, 2009 11 am
    Mystery Bookstore
    1036-C Broxton Ave.
    Los Angeles, CA 90024
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    Signing with William Rabkin

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    Aug. 12-17 2009 International Mystery Writers Festival
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    Oct. 24, 2009 10 am
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    Nov. 21, 2009 9-4:30 pm
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